Honda 4514 Riding Lawnmower

[Mech]

Very good. Hope you're letting the grass grow.. ready for it.

[Gwbarm]

Actually its getting close to winter here not much grass to cut.

[Mech]

Ha yeah that's what I was thinking. You're going to get it going and be looking for something to mow.

You might just have to think up reasons to drive it around... To the store maybe.

[Gwbarm]

Got it running today! Runs really good right! Seems to be idling a little fast i will check the idle speed. Went to start it 2 hrs later wouldnt start. I think the little fuel plunger that i freed up is still sticking. But thats not the real problem if you noticed when i moved the shift lever it did nothing. I kind of suspected there might be a problem there. When i went to move it to work on it the little lever in the back that you move to be able to roll it didnt release. Jacked up the wheels and rolled them one turns one way and the other turns the other way. That could mean the brake is stuck or the hydrostatic valve is stuck, probably the latter because the brake didnt work at all went to the floor. I have never worked on a hydrostatic transmission will be a learning expierience for me. At least the new old coil worked. Excuse the shaky video i was trying to hold the camera move the shift lever and parking brake and brake at the same time. There also may be an issue with the parking brake if it is not releasing all the way the engine stumbles and will eventually die so you dont drive it with the parking brake on. I noticed when i was releasing it the light would still flicker until you push it down hard, im going to investigate that also.

 

 

 

[Mech]

The handbrake and stumbling sounds like another of those safety devices.

Couldn't get the video to run, probably the wrong time of day, evening and everyone's using up my bandwidth..I'll try again in the morning. I did see it start.. nice aye..

If the trans has hydraulic valves in it I'd let it get totally warmed up, and perhaps leave it running in gear to see if the shuttle doesn't come free once the aluminium valve body has expanded. After a long sit the valves could be sticky. Going from forwards to reverse too might help.

 

[Gwbarm]

Im thinking that also , i did drench the valve thats stuck with PB Blaster, that allows you to take it out of gear to roll it around, im hoping it is just stuck somewhere between roll it around and go in gear. I didnt run it too long i want to change the coolant and oil before i get it too hot.

The handbrake has to be on to start it, and you have to be sitting on the seat to take off the handbrake or it will stop running but it does give you a couple of seconds before that happens. I unplugged the seat switch and it still tried to stop when i took off the handbrake, so i will try to bypass that, kind of hard to diagnose sitting on the seat, but i do like their safety features really strait forward unlike some of the current ones that are just annoying, and there is a small access plate to get to the transmission and try a few things.

Thanks for sticking with me on this one, your comments are always very helpful and keeps me motivated. Even though its not a quad it does have 4 wheels.

[Mech]

Ha. All good. Keeps us both amused.

Since disconnecting the seat switch did nothing, it's probably an open circuit to kill the engine, and closed contacts keeps it going.. all through that ECU of course..

 

[Gwbarm]

I quit avoiding the inevitable and tore in to it today. Got the whole backend off and found two problems!

The brake is stuck and also the lever that you push back and forth to  take it out of gear so you can roll it around. The brake must be really stuck because i pulled it around with  the John Deere so i could work on it and the wheels dragging the whole time and it still didnt break loose. Thr brake is housed under this cover attached to the transmission and is a bear to get to.

 

 

The lever has been soaking in PB Blaster for the last couple of days hasnt helped yet. You can see in the middle left of photo it pulls up on the piece of flat metal which attaches to a valve to move it in and out of gear. 

 

 .

A whole lot more than i had planned on getting into, rathar spend my time on a quad. but these are gaining popularity a lot of lot of people are restoring them, so probably time well spent.

 

Glad i pulled it off it was a mess under there.

Things seemed a little slow today thought this may be a little entertainment.

 

 

 

[Mech]

Onya Gw. I suspect that quad work is a seasonal thing.

That brake looks like it will be a multi plate arrangement, and probably pulls out plate by plate once the cover comes off. Some tractors use the same system and it seems pretty good, works well and is sealed and simple to work on.. other than the restricted space to get your socket on in that mower.

The hydraulic trans sounds like a potential hassle, but hopefully being honda it will be reliable.

[Gwbarm]

Yeah! I thought it might be these little typical lawn mower brake pads also, but on this one not the case.

 

Got real little brake shoes. And i can see how they would get stuck if you leave the parking brake on too long especially if there are no pad left which im assuming is what im going to find. I was hoping i could get the other unstuck with PB Blaster but i may try tapping with a small hammer. I have a very small Ball Peen which would be perfect but i couldnt find it today. 

 

[Mech]

Oh ok. That is dinky. Yeah unless the activating lever is seized(you should be so lucky), the shoes have likely welded themselves to the drum, similar to a stuck clutch on a vehicle that hasn't been used for a long time, or been parked with wet shoes/clutch.

I don't have any suggestions for getting that free. Tapping the drum might help, but I doubt it. Towing didn't free it..  Heat might help, but in my experience that doesn't really help with stuck brakes like that. If you drilled a small hole through the center of the backplate you could put a socket in and undo bolt #10 and pull the drum and all.. if it fits past the chassis !

Have fun.. haha.

Perhaps you could make a tool (steel bar with two bolts through it) to rotate the backplate after the bolts are out ?

[Gwbarm]

Well i finally got the little culpret to move, its been soaking with PB Blaster for 2 weeks with no movement , added some Marvel Mystery oil came right loose with a few small taps. Still wont roll around so onto the brakes, not sure exactly how the brake system works on the hydostatic transmission it is somehow interlinked with the transmission but i will give it a try. Just looking back over the thread i have done a lot of work to this stupid thing, doesnt seem like it, cause im just doing a little at a time. Other projects taking priority.

 

 

 

[Gwbarm]

Got the brake shoes and cover out, brakes shoes good not stuck to the drum at all, linkage works fine. Its never been taken apart before and has been many years since the brake shoes have come close to touching the drum. The linkage ( Brake Rod Arm)  that connects the foot brake and parking brake together is frozen solid got it soaking in PB Blaster but so far no amount of hammering has moved it. 

So now i know why the brakes dont work and it has nothing whatsoever to do with the transmission not working. Got to dig deeper.

Bolts that havent been removed in 34 years. Look just like new. and they were tight.

 

 

 

[Mech]

Steady progress there Gw.. Well done you.

Those bolts, and everything else is amazingly clean.. Grass juice is corrosive ..Better put some of that marvel oil on the brake arm..

I've never heard of that stuff but I used to use something called "liquid wrench", thin as diesel and very penetrating. That used to surprise me sometimes..  I never called it a marvel though..  haha.

And since this is the garden corner..  I've been up tree three and four today, cutting branches off with my new stihl battery saw. It's a bit weak but wonderfully convenient, safe and easy to use.

[Gwbarm]

Marvel Mystery Oil has been around for a while, a little history: its red like transmission fluid with a sweeter smell. I also use liquid wrench used to use it all the time and them PB Blaster hit the market, still not sure which one is better.

Good luck with that Stihl makes great saws.

 

 

It is composed primarily of petroleum distillates, including mineral oil (60–100%), mineral spirits (10–30%), tricresyl phosphate (an antiwear and extreme pressure additive in lubricants, 0.1–1.0%), ortho-dichlorobenzene(a softening and removing agent for carbon-based contamination on metal surfaces, 0.1–1.0%), and para-dichlorobenzene (a precursor used in the production of chemically and thermally resistant polymers, <0.1%).

Origin

The Marvel Oil Company (also known as Marvel Carburetor Company; Marvel-Schebler Carburetors since 1928) was founded by Burt Pierce in 1923.^[2] Before World War I, the company produced carburetors for automobiles and aircraft. Some of these encountered problems with clogged jets, prompting Pierce to formulate a blend of chemicals and petroleum to clean and maintain them. Marvel claims the oil creates a top ring seal producing higher compression, preventing blow-by on power strokes, resulting in more power.^[2] Supporting evidence is not provided.

The Marvel Oil Company, initially based in Chicago, moved to New York in 1941; it was purchased by Turtle Wax Inc. in 1999, returning to Chicago.^[2]

According to the company, the name Mystery Oil comes from Pierce's answer to the question, "What kind of oil is this?" to which Pierce would respond, "It's a mystery!"^[2]

 

[Mech]

Haha.. Interesting.. That chemical to dissolve carbon sounds like the power ingredient.

And yeah, my old stihl's about close to forty, had a set of rings when son two and I were slabbing up some acacia once but apart from that still runs and cuts beauty.. Oh it's had a bar, and several chains. Maybe two bars.. haha.

[Gwbarm]

Update:

I walked away for a while not knowing what i was going to try next, sometimes when you are at the end of your rope you have to do that or either call the junk man, didnt really have the time or interest in rebuilding the hydrostatic trans, dosing it weekly with PB Blaster and the last month Marvel Mystery Oil , it finaally let loose, even though i could move the mechanism a month ago it still wasnt releasing the wheels. Went out today and just tried it and wheels released. I can now roll it around. Now i have to put it all back together to see if the trans actually works, and fix the brakes while its apart.

[Mech]

Ha. Good one Gw. Patience always wins..