1985 Honda ATC250ES

[Tthartdoor]

Hey, Im new here. Just signed up a few minutes ago.

Recently i bought a 85 Honda ATC250ES Big Red. It needs a fair bit of work and Ive been trying to figure it out. One problem is the kickstarter being locked up. Just today I got the right side crankcase cover pulled off and the gears in there look great. Does this mean the engine is locked up? To be clear, the engine has never run in my ownership. Thankyou for any advice.

[Mech]

Take the bung out of the left side and use a socket to try and turn the crank..

Edited December 30, 2023 by Mech

[Gwbarm]

Can you roll it around or are the wheels locked

[Tthartdoor]

Ok Mech, I will try that the next time I get a chance.

[Tthartdoor]

Gwbarm, my threewheeler will roll around just fine in neutral but not when in gear.

[Gwbarm]

It does sound like the engine or clutch plates might be stuck, i would put some PB Blaster and Marvel Mystery Oil in the spark plug hole and let it sit overnight, if you can get to the crank nut try turning it a little at a time each way and see if it breaks loose.

[kawasig]

You can use transmission fluid in the spark plug hole also if You don't have the PB or Marvel mystery oil. A once or two should be plenty. The marvels is great stuff for the gas and crank case when running as maintenance too! 

[Tthartdoor]

Thanks for all your suggestions. This morning i put some lubricant similar to pb blaster in the spark plug hole, so later on today i will try and see if it helped. If it doesnt help my next step will likely be pulling off the left crankcase cover and see if the crankshaft turns at all.

[Tthartdoor]

Hey, guys, I just ran into another problem. The kickstarter assembly came out and Im not sure how to put it back in. The first picture is of the kickstart assembly. Does anybody know if that return spring is how it should be or if it is bent. Also, Im not sure where the hook on the return spring is supposed to hook onto the crankcase. Can anyone describe on the second picture where the hook hooks?

[Mech]

I don't recognise anywhere in the second picture where the spring would go, could it engage in the cover ? There will be a wear mark where the spring has engaged on the case, and probably where it engaged on the shaft. That's how I'd figure where it went.

The spring does look bent.

This might help..

https://www.babbittsonline.com/oemparts/a/hon/506ba857f870023420a21161/kick-starter

[Gwbarm]

Comparing the spring to the Babbitts diagram it does look bent, but if you look at the spring itself, it does not, it seems to be made that way. I am wondering if it doent hook into the piece that is off set from the case. Not sure of that i looked up a shop manual from 85-86 and it does show a spring more similar to yours. Still couldnt exactly see where it hooks into.

 

[Mech]

A lot of hondas the spring hooks onto aluminium on the case, they don't always have a steel pin to hook to like some makes do.

[Tthartdoor]

Good morning. Yesterday afternoon I did get the engine to turn over by using a socket on the crankshaft after letting lubricant sit in the cylinder for several hours. So as of last evening the engine was turning over well but is still need to figure out the kickstarter deal. I can put the kickstarter assembly in place and it works the engine like it should but the spring was not hooked right so the pedal doesn’t return right. This three wheeler needs a bit more work to run, but I’m happy the engine isn’t locked up.

[Mech]

Ok. I think the return spring goes under that steel plate in the picture. See the lower allen key has a bit of extra plate poking down, well in the ATV250 it has the same set up and the spring hooks behind that plate and rests against aluminium.

[Gwbarm]

I did find this description on a 3 wheeler site may help.

 

Further assistance: Line up all dots, make sure return spring is in place, use grease to hold a thrust washer on the back, if it has one.

You have to tip the shaft on an angle to get it in it's bore and behind the plate it hides behind (hope you can find that by yourself)

Tipping it allows you to get the spring ahead of that catch and then the shaft all the way in, then the kicker dots will be at 12:00. That thrust washer may now be in the gearbox if it's a 250SX or ES.

Have a ball............

[Mech]

I think I'd put the shaft straight in as far as possible then wrestle the spring into place.

The dots are on the shaft and the sliding bendix thing on the shaft.. 

 

[Tthartdoor]

Good morning. I still havent got the kickstarter back in right with the spring hooked how it should be. Ive tried it different ways but cant get it to work. If you have any other suggestions I'd appreciate them but i know its hard to explain something like this in words. I am attaching a screenshot from my service manual that tells how to install the kickstarter assembly. I've tried to do it how they say but cant get it to work. Maybe Im missing something?

[Mech]

The spring looks like it's bent when we compare it to the pictures. It might not be and/or it might still work though.

I presume that when you say the spring doesn't work that you mean it's not strong enough to return the pedal ? Have you tried taking the spring off the shaft and putting it back on with the end through the shaft from the opposite side of the shaft, like, turn the shaft a half rotation. They are normally pretty well wound up and take a bit of muscle to get them in. I'd put the shaft in and then use some channel-lock pliers to wind the spring up and into place. It will probably take a whole rotation, a half rotation of the spring won't be enough, two full rotations will likely be too much.

[Tthartdoor]

I may be wrong but i dont think the spring is bent more than it should be. If it hooks on that metal plate like i think it does I think it would need to be bent. Also what i meant by the spring not working is that i dont think ive ever got it put in where its pulling right. I try to follow the directions in my service manual, but the punch mark in the end of the shaft never ends up in the 12oclock position and the spring isnt pulling the kickstarter back up. I tend to think im hooking the spring up wrong rather than the spring being too weak but im not sure.

[Gwbarm]

Yeah, typical manual, install in reverse order, that never seems to work well for me.

[Mech]

 

Yeah  Tihart, I reckon the the spring needs attaching to the shaft, half a turn from where it is. If your kickstart shaft has a hole drilled through it for the return spring  to lock into, then I suspect it needs a half rotation. The plastic collar needs pulling out and the spring slipped out of it's anchor, then the shaft rotating a half turn the spring being set back in and the lock colour being returned. Then it will have a half a turn extra on the spring and will hopefully do it.

[Tthartdoor]

Yesterday i had taken the kickstart assembly apart and I can remember the hole in the shaft did not go the whole way through. 

[Gwbarm]

Finally sit down with enough glasses and concentration to view the service manual page. The description for reinstallation is better than most manuals. Im sure you have tried a multitude of times to get it. From what i see you hook the spring into the case rotate the assembly clockwise while seating it into its position and continue rotating clockwise until the punch mark is facing up. You might have to try it several times before it seats into the correct position, and i know that its not as easy as it looks in the manual. The spring looks ok to me , it does need to be offset a bit to hook onto the case and rotate it back to its correct position. Maybe not much help but its hard to evaluate properly with my hands on it.

[ForumIdiot]

Cool.