2006 trx350te Honda rancher 350 es clutch plates

[Gwbarm]

Good you got it up and driving, keeping my fingers crossed its going to come around, Mech gave you a very good detailed description of what to do, dont have anything to add to that. Good luck!

[Mech]

Thank you Gw. Your help and support is always and much appreciated by everyone here I'm sure.. By me anyway.

[Ejwill]

Well, all I can say is thank you to MECH and GW for sticking with me all this time. I got it to shift from neutral to first so I rode it around the house, it would shift from first to neutral with electric shift. But that’s all I could get. I rode it reving it up trying to get it to shift to other gears which it would not. Then while riding around the house it just knock off on me and is locked up as tight as a drum. Don’t know what happened but it will not turn over and I tried pulling the rope starter and couldn’t get it to budge, I could not get it to roll over at all. If the engine is locked up I guess I’m through with this thing. Told my wife it was a waste of time and she said well , you learned a lot and met some really good people and I have to agree,  you have been great helping me all this time. And I’m sorry for wasting your time. But it was great working with y’all.  You are great people and I wished it had turned out better with the quad but I guess it is just scrap now. Maybe some of the parts can fit my son’s Quad. Thanks again y’all are fantastic people, it’s good to know there are some still out there.
EJ (Jeff)

[Mech]

Oh that's a pity after all that work Jeff. I'm sorry to hear that.

Yeah if it will make a spares bike then the son might as well have it.  At least, apart from all the frustration and stiff neck, it hasn't cost too much to do all this work.

Hopefully you will find another bike and we'll see you back in here soon.. in happier circumstances.

 

[davefrombc]

Are you sure the motor is seized and not something else jamming it ?

[Gwbarm]

Motor shoudnt have seized imm thinking the trans has got you locked up, did you try taking out the shift motor to see if it frees up the engine. Any noises before it seized. 

[Mech]

If the trans seized it would still pull or crank over. The centrifugal clutch would allow that.

[Ejwill]

Yeah, I thought it should at least roll over with the rope crank but it wouldn’t budge. Learned a lot from you all. Thanks again. 

[Mech]

Have you tried putting a socket on the crank and checking for play down there.  I doubt it's going to come right but it's worth investigating what went wrong.

 

It sounds like a seized engine, and I can only suspect it was a lack of oil, but the bearings in them aren't really prone to seizing suddenly, they normally get noisy first. It could be that the cam has seized, in which case the crank will move a tiny amount.

If you get it into neutral, does it roll ?

[Mech]

Doh.. forget the idea about turning the crank..  that was a brain fart. I was forgetting it's s later design..  haha.

[Ejwill]

I’ll try getting it in neutral tomorrow and see if it will roll. We had a tropical storm go over today. Lost power so I needed one more heavy duty extension cord for the generator. Got out in this crap and got home and the power was back on. But I was glad I didn’t have to use it.

[Gwbarm]

I would drain the oil out in a clean container in case you need to reuse it. Take the front cover back off and check the clutches for proper operation. It just suspicious that the engine seized shortly after you were working on the clutches and trans especially with all the trouble you have had getting them back in right. Too much water under the bridge to give up now, plus i always like to know why it failed, if for no other reason peace of mind. The engine may very well have seized if the oil pump stopped working.

[Mech]

Yeah it does seem strange. Roller bearings aren't prone to seizing like shell bearings, and especially not suddenly, without any noise, and while riding around the house.

But even if the centrifugal clutch had seized/locked, the engine should try to crank the bike forwards.

I agree though, try to figure what went wrong.. It may be something simple still, and after all this work it's not much more.

The gear shift is still a mystery though. It goes right up and down through the gears stationary, but not while riding..  Hmmm..

[Ejwill]

Well as I said I got it in neutral and rolled it back into the garage. The battery was dead I left the switch on, after trying the electric shift. So charged it up, came back in the garage, as I rolled by I thought I’m going to try one more time and the thing cranked right up. So Now I guess the mystery deepens. I almost fell out of my chair. What do you think now. Continue trying the gears?

[Mech]

haha.. Yes keep trying the gears..  How about jacking it up and trying it with the engine running and seeing if it will shift through all the gears..

And, this quad does roll ok ? It's not got tight brakes or faulty front diff or anything like that ?

And.. have we checked the angle sensor thingy down by the electric shift ? That could cause bad electric shifts..Shouldn't trouble the manual shift as far as I know.. Maybe if it's broken though, and jambing things up or something..

Glad you are back on it Ej..

.

[Mech]

And can you remind me about the circumstances of this problem arising.. I remember the first thread but can't find it now..  You were out riding weren't you, everything going right, and then it just stopped shifting with the switches, is that right ?

And did we do any diagnostics at that stage ? I don't remember being part of any such discussion.. but my memory isn't worth s##t..

Edited September 1, 2023 by Mech

[Gwbarm]

Thats strange it must have unlocked something when you put it in neutral, good, i thought it would take more than that to lock up a honda engine, even with no oil, but check the oil anyway to make sure its good.

[Ejwill]

I’ll jack it up and give it a try, it’ll be Sunday or maybe late Saturday before I can get to it. Dove season starts tomorrow and bow deer season starts the next Saturday. Got to get this thing going, I could sure us it.

[Ejwill]

I got it cranked and manually shifted the gears. I think it shifted all five, it felt like it, but it was hard to tell without moving on it. Now I can’t get it to crank, the battery seems to be the problem it will try to crank but when it doesn’t , I try again and the battery starts clicking if I hold the started switch down it starts clicking rapidly but the motor will not turn over. I checked the voltage across the battery poles after trying to crank it and it showed 11.4 volts. The battery isn’t very old bought it when starting on the quad. But I guess that doesn’t mean it couldn’t be bad, not holding a charge. Think I should try a new battery? Something is going on with it. It sounds like it’s coming from behind the positive terminal. There’s a lot of electrical components back there but I don’t have a clue. Thanks for your help.

[davefrombc]

The biggest killer of all forms of lead/acid batteries is letting them sit, especially if they are not fully charged  to start with.   Sulfate builds up on the plates as they discharge and it  hardens as it sits. Recharging a badly sulfated battery ,especially using a "desulfating"  cycle can  make some of that hardened sulfate flake off instead of going back into  solution and  shorting a cell.  That reading of 11.4 volts ,could be  because of a shorted cell, and be the cause of the "chatter"  when trying to  start the  quad.  A decent maintainer used on the battery when the  quad is laid up  will keep the battery charged up and extend its life many fold.

 

If  it is a shorted cell the battery is toast.  Don't bother trying any of the "miracle" battery "rejunenators" you occasionally see advertised  for sulfated  or shorted cell batteries. They don't work.  Buy a good maintainer  when  you  buy  a new battery and use it when the quad is laid up .  The same goes for riding lawnmowers , boats or any other RV or yard equipment  that may sit for more than  a week or so at a time.

[Mech]

Try charging the battery first. It might be all it needs. As Gw says, they don't like sitting partially flat, and you might not have charged it enough after the first driving around the house break down.

And, one of the first things they say to do when diagnosing the electric shift is to check the battery is fully charged.

Once the battery is charged and the engine is running put the volt gauge across the battery and check it's at at least 13.5, and preferably nearer 14.7.

If you have the wheels jacked up and try the gears with the engine running, you should be able to tell by the speedo, or the speed the wheels are going at, whether it's getting up through the gears.

Jack it up and test the gears manually with the engine running, then if you can get all the gears try the electric shift and see if you can get all the gears.

[Gwbarm]

Agreed! If the battery is that new it should be good, although they only give a 6 month warranty on these small batterys, they dont have a terribly long life, but you should get about three years out of it, once in use or with a battery tender on them. Im wondering if you electric shift motor may be running it down, cant remember if you replaced that. 

When you left the key on and it ran the battery down, did it charge back up with no issues. The reason i ask is my electronic battery charger tells me when the battery is dead and stops charging, but i dont always trust that function, if the battery is really drained i have to charge it for a while with an analogue charger to get the voltage up a tad to charge correctly with the electronic one.

[davefrombc]

I assumed Ejwill would recharge the battery before trying to  start the quad  again..  Even a brand new battery run down  and left discharged for  too long  can  be destroyed or at least have its capacity greatly reduced  by sulfation.  That's why I recommend  battery maintainers / tenders.  A battery kept up  by a maintainer should last a lot longer than  3 years.  One left in a partially discharged or completely flat  can  be destroyed in a year or a lot less.

[Gwbarm]

The last few batterys i have bought have been AGM batterys, more expensive and they dont seem to last as long as liquid filled, and yes battery maintainers are a big help.

[davefrombc]

Flooded batteries are fine in stationary and automotive  use where they  are less subjected to the pounding and occasional dumping over as they get in quads and bikes .  SLA are better in ATVs,  but the most reliable in them,, in my opinion,, are the AGMs.  They  have no  liquid that can be spilled when  our  ATVs are ridden  a little too  hard. (We'd  never do that , would we?)  They are far less prone  to any leakage  that could cause corrosion at the terminals or elsewhere near the battery. They  are far less prone to  damage from  vibration and shock  from hard riding.  Kept  charged up  with a maintainer or from frequent use and  parked fully charged between uses they should last as long or longer than  any of the others.  They are a bit more expensive, but I believe their advantages  outweigh the cost.

[Gwbarm]

I completely agree for all the reasons you mentioned, thats the very reason i switched, and as you stated a maintainer helps with longevity.

[Ejwill]

I unhooked everything from the battery and have it on charge. I’m going to charge it for a longer time this time then hook it back up and try it again. Going to check the battery voltage across the poles before I try to crank it and if it doesn’t crank I’ll check it to see if it pulled the battery down any if that draws it down much I’m going to get another battery.

[Mech]

That sounds like a good test of the battery. 

Another common test is to turn the charger off and wait for a few hours before checking the voltage. It shouldn't be below about 12.6. batteries vary with the temperature and age though, but the voltage should stay stable over hours and hours, overnight is a good time.

[Gwbarm]

Your charger should tell you if it completely charges or not. Even the analogue ones with a needle, when you put the charger on it if its drawing 6 amp its pretty dead and the longer you leave it on the needle will move toward 0 mine usually stops around 2. If it goes to 2 and the next time you look its back up to 4 the battery is going bad. Of course the electronic ones senses it right away and tells you bad.

[Ejwill]

I unhooked everything from the battery and have it on charge. I’m going to charge it for a longer time this time then hook it back up and try it again. Going to check the battery voltage across the poles before I try to crank it and if it doesn’t crank I’ll check it to see if it pulled the battery down any if that draws it down much I’m going to get another battery. My charger will usually tell if the battery is bad. It hasn’t done that. As far as charging it goes in percentages 25, 50, 75, 100. It says it’s 100% now but I’m going to leave it on for a while longer. Then check the voltage across the poles before trying to crank it again, then try to crank it again and see if that pulls the battery down much. If it drops to 11 or so I think the battery is not able to hold a charge. I’ll just put a new one in and see what it does. I don’t think it should draw a battery down like that just turning the starter. If it does crank on the first try I’ll check I’ll check the battery voltage then also. I think if it will crank I’ll be able to get the gears to work. One of the poles is damaged some the bolt that screwed into the pole stripped out and I had to put a larger bolt in it. I don’t know if that damage would affect it or not, it’s still making good contact. I found a square nut in an old battery and put another bolt in using the square nut in the pole instead of screwing a bolt directly into the pole like it came. It had the place to put a nut, the batteries I’ve seen always came with a nut and bolt for both poles. Thanks to you all for the help maybe it’ll work out.