2006 trx350te Honda rancher 350 es clutch plates

[Gwbarm]

You might double check to make sure it is left handed threads the ones I worked on were but there are so many models out there you never know, but I would think all the engines would be the same. I would think a 24 volt impact would do it, I get most everything off with an 18 volt dewalt but it a big powerful 1/2 inch one. One other thing there is a locking tab on the nut you have to bend up to unlock the nut.

[Mech]

"The screws were out of the handle bar controls my youngest said they must have fallen out, I don’t think so."..  ha..

Check the threads alright.. The manual I looked in didn't mention left hand threads.. which I'm sure they would have, but as Gw says.. models vary a lot. If there is a bit of thread showing on the end of the shaft, look at the little bit of thread where it disappears under the nut, and work out which way will wind the nut off those threads.. the single thread will taper/slant off under the nut.

[Gwbarm]

Thats what I was afraid of, 24v impact should have taken that off, maybe all were not left handed threads.

[Ejwill]

GW, I tried to take the nut off as left hand threads but wouldn’t budge. So I locked the gears with the aluminum tent peg and turned as standard right hand threads and it came right off. Just wanted to let anyone reading this so they would know what I had to do.

[Gwbarm]

I was afraid of that, sorry I steered you wrong, the ones I have worked on have been left handed threads, also the manual I looked in said left handed threads, glad you got it out.

[Ejwill]

I got the centrifugal clutch off and the change clutch. I was wondering though, the change clutch came off with the centrifugal clutch, didn’t have to use any kind of puller. It just slipped off. Could something be wrong there? I worked back to the shift cam/star washer and held the stopper arm away from the shift cam and it turned pretty easily by hand. I turned it counter clockwise until it stopped then back clockwise about five sprockets. I thought maybe when it stopped turning counterclockwise it may have been in neutral but when I turned it back clockwise the tires still turned freely. The manual shifter still will not shift, and it has about a 1/2 inch of free play in it. I have no idea from here.

[Gwbarm]

The clutch basket should just slide off, it's good that the shift drum is turning freely, does it feel like its going in to a gear or just turning freely. With everything together and you shift the gearshift does the linkage turn the shift drum to a gear or do nothing. 

[Mech]

Ok, So we might have two issues here. We've ascertained that the shift barrel rotates, and so should be changing gears, but doesn't seem to have any drive, and the manual shift lever still can't move..  is that correct ?

I think we should check whether the gears inside the case are moving and engaging first. That star shaped washer and it's sprung loaded roller that you were holding back are what set the shift barrel's position. Between positions there are neutrals, no gears engage. It has to be like that or you'd get two gears for a moment as you shifted. What happens is, as you move the shift lever up or down, it rotates that start washer and lifts the sprung loaded roller till it gets to the top of the star's bump, then the star washer and shift barrel rotate under the pressure of the roller and shift the rest of the distance into the next gear. It's that roller that engages and holds gears. You need to test the gears again but this time leave the roller pressing on the star washer. You will notice that the star has a smaller hollow which is the neutral position. Test to see that each gear seems to shift and be engaged, even if it's only checking they have some small resistance to turning.. If we are sure they are engaging and turning the second shaft then we will worry about why the tyres aren't turning. Perhaps a H/L neutral ? Or is this a super low first model ? I'll look in the book later if I get a chance.. Since the gears were working though, just no shift, I wouldn't worry too much about that part of it at the moment. If you do think the gears are bust, look for metal flakes or chunks in the sump.. use a magnet..

If we can get the gears working, we need to figure out what's gone wrong and jambing the shift lever. I think the first thing there would be to try and remove the electric shift motor. I'd suspect that if the electric motor seized it might jamb the manual shift as well..  But I haven't looked in the book yet.. 

[Ejwill]

I got the clutches off the change clutch came off without any force. Just came off by hand. Don’t know if that’s normal or not. The star washer turned by hand while holding the arm off of it . But the tires still turn both ways freely when I thought they would be in gear, and the manual shift will not shift. It has about one half inch of free play in it turn that much before it stops solid. I’m pretty much lost from here. Found nothing broke or badly worn. But all of that seems to be out of play now. When the tires turn the shaft turns but not the what I think is the sub shaft does not. I was afraid it could be the linkage on the back of the spindle, which you can’t get to from the front. But I don’t know anything else to do. Thanks for any help and direction from here. I think It may be getting deep from here on out.

[Gwbarm]

When you pull up or down on the shifter does it move the spring loaded change mechanism at all at the shift drum. If nothing is moving there it’s not going to shift

[Mech]

The shift problem is looking like being in the rear cover, which I think can be taken off in place..  I wouldn't rush to do that just yet though.

 If the gear shift shaft that comes out down near the star washer won't move, then it's something in the back, the lever that goes between the manual shift and the shift shaft, or the electric motor, or perhaps something to do with the reverse interlock.

I'd try taking the reverse interlock cable off, and the electric motor off, and then try moving things by hand trying to figure what's happening, and what's not happening as it should. I'd hold the manual shift lever and the shift shaft at the front and check they were interconnected and operating correctly. If you look in the online parts places at the gearshift picture, you will see there's a short shaft and link operating that longer shift shaft that comes out the front. Try and figure whether those two shafts and links are connected together and working. Take off the electric shift motor and see if things move then.

[Gwbarm]

I forgot about the electric shift motor that may be very well what's stopping it from moving, with battery power when you push the shift button do you hear anything at the motor, like its trying to shift maybe a hum or a click

[Mech]

I just realised the shift motor is on the front, and will already be off..  It has to be in the rear case where the two shafts come together at right angles, or, the reverse interlock is causing a problem..  Pretty sure.

[Ejwill]

The manual shifter and the gear spindle are not connected in the back .I could move the spindle and feel it bumping the manual shaft. I kept twisting them until the coauthor on each other. I could move the manual shifter free play and it would move the spindle about the same. Pretty sure I just got them hung up to do that, not connected . It looks like I need to pull the engine and go into the back cover. Seems like it is possibly more than the spindle and manual shifter not being connected by the linkage. Don’t know what but it’s locked up so tight seems like it must be in the transmission gears. I’m just guessing y’all are the pros, what do you think? Thanks again for all the help, I know this has been a long post and I appreciate y’all hanging with me on this. It’s some experience. I’ve measured everything in the clutches by the manual and everything looks good. Showing some wear but nothing serious. Digital indicator came up within specs. Of course you can always have a little human error. But everything I think will work ok. One shaft bushing was out .04 but I just feel someone else would have gotten something else if they measured it. Everyone has a little different touch. It wasn’t scratched or gouged. So I’m letting it go. It’s not a nuclear plant. But I do want it right. Thanks again for the help and advice.

[Mech]

It's possible that the shift shaft has moved back now the shift mechanism is off it. It might need pulling forwards to re-engage with the shift lever's shaft. If you look in a parts places picture you will see how they fit together.

I doubt there's anything wrong deep in the middle cases, which is where the gears themselves are. You need to retry the shift barrel and star thing, leaving the detent roller engaged with the star. You should be able to get all the gears and neutral.

If you can get the gears(at the star wheel), then we can concentrate on getting the manual lever to work them, then figure what's gone wrong ..

Edited June 14, 2023 by Mech

[OzarkPerformance]

We have seen this part on several 350 Honda ES go bad.   Check to see if it's broken.  

24620-HN5-M00

ARM, GEARSHIFT 24620-HN5-M00 ARM, GEARSHIFT

  You will have to look it up.  I can't get a pic to attach.

[Gwbarm]

Good information Ozark, hope that's it. Is this the part.

[Ejwill]

On 6/12/2023 at 1:58 PM, Gwbarm said:

When you pull up or down on the shifter does it move the spring loaded change mechanism at all at the shift drum. If nothing is moving there it’s not going to shift

When I tried to shift with the manual shifter the shift cam/ star washer does not move at all or even try to move. Or the change arm/spring loaded arm with the roller neither of them move.

[Ejwill]

On 6/11/2023 at 4:36 PM, Mech said:

Ok, So we might have two issues here. We've ascertained that the shift barrel rotates, and so should be changing gears, but doesn't seem to have any drive, and the manual shift lever still can't move..  is that correct ?

I can’t get the star washer to move but one notch now. Haven’t changed a thing, except try to get it to turn with the roller in place it would move one notch like that also. None of the parts connect to the star washer move when I try to shift manually.  The tires still roll freely and turn the crank shaft but I can’t turn the tires by turning the crank shaft, I could earlier. Don’t know if something changed when I was trying to turn the star washer while it was engaged with the shift arm. I tried turning the tires with the shaft an the shaft just rotated round no resistance. It slides in and out and I feel it bumping on both in and out. Don’t seem right the tires turn it still but it won’t turn the tires. I have no clue. Sorry for getting y’all into this mess. I’m probably not explaining everything so you know what I’m talking about and that makes it harder on you. Think I’ll just take the motor out of my wife’s Rav 4 and put it in here.😂

[OzarkPerformance]

Yes, that's it.

[Mech]

If it's the shaft the plate clutch normally fits on is moving in and out it's because the clutch is off it now. It needs pulling out, and the gears won't work if it's pushed back. Pull it forwards and turn that as you try turning the star washer, with the roller pressing on it. It will take a bit of force to turn it with the roller pressing it, and you need to rotate that shaft at the same time.. If you do that you should get five gears and a neutral. Even if the wheels don't turn, you should feel the difference in resistance between first and top gears, and perhaps be able to see the other gear box shaft rotating in a bearing.

Get that right first. There's no point worrying about the more external linkages if the actual gears inside need stripping down. Make sure the star washer can get all the gears first. Then we can concentrate on fixing the change linkages.

And the first step in checking the change linkages I think is make sure it's not the reverse interlock causing it. We need to get that manual shift lever working that change shaft that pokes out the front now, the one with that shift mechanism on it.

[Ejwill]

Well, I hope this is good news for a change. I got the star washer turning with the roller in place. I pulled out on the shaft and turned it a little as you said and I could tell it connected up I turned the star washer still having to sometimes move the shaft to get the star to go all the way dow in one of the slots, but it did turn I turned it as far as I could get it to turn one way and turned the ignition switch on and the neutral light turned on. So I guess it’s in neutral now. I haven’t tried the manual shifter since it hasn’t been working I figured it still wasn’t. I’m pretty sure the star washer had the roller move in five slots. What do I need to do next? Haven’t really done anything to fix a problem just tore everything down. Thanks for getting me this far. I think when and if this thing is ready to reassembly I’m going to change out the friction plates and metal plates and springs while it’s apart. They don’t cost that much.

Edited June 16, 2023 by Ejwill

[Mech]

Ok, that's good. You should be able to feel that you are getting different gears because each higher gear gets slightly harder to rotate the shaft. If you have all the gears then we need to find what's gone wrong with the shift lever's shaft's connection to the shift shaft that comes out at the front.

In this picture you can see how the shift lever shaft( 9 ), and arm (15), are meant to engage with shift shaft ( 17 ). If the arm 15 has come disconnected then you will have to try turning each shaft and try to get them to re-engage. Hopefully once they are engaged they will both move together. If they are already engaged, but jammed up so they won't move, then you are going to need to take the rear cover off  think, but before that I'd spend a bit of time trying pushing both shafts length ways, even though I don't think either are designed to move length ways, and try rotaating them both so they do disconnect and then try re connecting them. If the shift arm 15 is engaged properly it will move shift shaft 17 both directions with very little lost movement.

So.. recheck that the start washer is in fact getting every gear, then get the shift lever shaft and shift shaft working..  Then we can worry about why the electrical shift is working or not..  I suspect that once we have un-jammed the shift shafts the electric will work fine.

 

Edited June 16, 2023 by Mech

[Ejwill]

Ok, I turned the star washer and got five full sprockets on it then I turned it back the same until it wouldn’t go further and turned the switch on and the neutral light was on. As far as the shift spindle and the manual shifter I think # 15 is still positioned on the shaft #9.  I pushed the shift spindle back twisting it slightly, as it went. It has enough free play to twist it same as does the shaft #9. I eased the spindle back and twisting it I felt the part #15 because as I twisted the shaft #9 I felt it hit the #17 I could move the spindle when I twisted the manual shaft, so when I bumped them together I eased them apart pulling the spindle back just a hair twisted the spindle so that # 15 would turn down just a little and pushed them together I felt them hit and after that I could move the spindle back and forth with the free play that is in it with the manual shifter. They may be connected but I of course can’t be sure. And if the spindle moves out the connection will come undone again. Hope this is what you meant to do if not I’ll try again. Not pertaining to this I hit the hand brake and the brake lights came on. Will work on other electrical issues after this is solved (I hope it gets solved). Thanks again for your help and you too, GW. Looks like I may have spent more on tools than parts at least I hope that’s the way it works out. I can always use more tools. Thanks again.

[Ejwill]

On 6/14/2023 at 5:30 PM, OzarkPerformance said:

24620-HN5-M00

I did check it it looks fine to me. Wish that had of been the problem. Thanks for your help

[Gwbarm]

 So glad you got it figured out without splitting the case, I hadn't abandoned you , I have been keeping tabs on your progress, just got kind of busy, Mech is so good with transmissions I thought you were in good hands.

[Ejwill]

I know GW I really appreciate all your help. This has been a long journey and not there yet. I still don’t know what I have to do to fix the problem. I hope it isn’t too far off from being fixed . I really haven’t done anything to fix the shift problem, just did some things that provided some information that may get me there. Good to hear from you, thanks for your help. I understand that you have things to do and you have other people to help. I do appreciate your help with my problem. You, Mech, and Ozark have been a help and thanks to you all.

[Mech]

That's a good description thanks Ej.

It sounds like the two shaft/arms are now engaged. If you can turn the 17 clockwise and anti-clockwise by using the shift lever now, then that part is working, and free. Don't swing the manual lever too far though or it may disengage itself again..

It sounds like you have all the gears as well now, so we just need to get the shift shafts operating that star washer thingy.. 

So you've figured that the shaft 17 disengages if it moves forwards, so it depends on the front cover to prevent that happening when it's all together. In the mean time you'll have to watch it doesn't come out of mesh as you put the change mechanism 11 back on. Once that's on you can try changing the gears with the manual shift lever while rotating that gearbox shaft a lot..  rotating it continually till each gear slips into mesh under the influence of that roller on the start washer.

Hopefully that will work now !

Edited June 17, 2023 by Mech

[Ejwill]

Ok, the sub-gear shaft the one the angle sensor goes on only turns a little just some free play the same amount of free play the manual shaft has. They don’t feel as if they are connected to anything else but each other. Neither of them reacts with the star washer or roller arm is moved. The sub-gear spindle is still locked up except for a little free play as well as free play in the manual shifter. That’s all they move.

[Mech]

Ok.. That "sub-gear" shaft..  That's shaft 17 is it ?

That shaft, 17, probably doesn't move much, perhaps only about..  err..  A 1/16 or 1/8 of a turn, It doesn't need to move much to change the gears.

I think what you need do now is to have a play around with the reverse interlock lever, which is on the back cover and has a cable going to it. Disconnect the cable and have a fiddle with that and the shift levers. See if that reverse interlock seems to allow and prevent their free movement. If it is doing something, then I think we put the shift mechanism back on the front of shaft 17 and try changing gears while turning the gearbox shafts..