1996 Yamaha Kodiak 400 Strange spark issue

[fordsoll]

I have a 96 Kodiak 400 that suddenly died and didn't start back up again I replaced the cdi and ignition coil and now when I check for spark it is very good but when I put the plug back in the engine to start it it does not start so I checked for spark again and it only sparks every few seconds instead of what it did before. The engine will run if I don't check for spark and just start it right away but I don't know how long because it was just running on wd 40.

[Mech]

I'd try a new plug..

[Gwbarm]

So it was not sparking, you replaced the CDI and coil, now it sparks but doesn't run, correct. Did you use aftermarket or OEM parts would be my first question, the next thing would be check the resistance of the pulser coil , if you have service manual check the specs, from memory it should be about 500 OHMs. Check the resistances from your new coil, iv had them bad right out of the box, and do the same with your old one and see if they are different. I have a Big Bear should be close to the same mine are.2 on primary and 8K on secondary.

[fordsoll]

It is an aftermarket cdi and coil I doubt its the cdi because when I try the old one it does the same thing. I tested the ignition coil and got .5 on primary and 3.8 on secondary. I tested the spark this morning and every few sparks it would miss and the spark quality is very poor and wont jump a gap much bigger than the spark plug itself which I think is gapped at .025 Plug is new. I will check the pulsar coil next.

[fordsoll]

Ok the manual says primary resistance for the coil is 0.36 to 0.48 I measured 0.50 the secondary resistance is supposed to be 5.44 to 7.36 I measured 3.92 maybe these are enough to spark but not enough for a good quality spark? it is -10 degrees celcius outside so maybe it could be that? The specs for the pickup coil is 171 to 209 ohms the multimeter would only read on the 2k setting so I got .415 ohms and the spec for the source coil is 270 to 330 but I again had to use 2k to measure it and I got .300 ohms. It seems like it shouldn't be sparking at all.

[Gwbarm]

Only reason I mentioned aftermarket I got three of the coils before I ever got one close to the right specs, your pickup coil is good. The manual I had which was for the Big Bear 400 and Kodiak 400. Which part was bad CDI or coil. I might try the old CDI with the new coil. The only reason im saying this is I have heard mixed opinions regarding aftermarket CDI being reliable.

[fordsoll]

The old coil wire just fell apart and you cant replace just the wire. I did try with the old cdi and I just got the same issue the spark is very weak. Could it be the stator or still the ignition coil?

[Gwbarm]

Your old CDI is probably still good I wouldn't throw it away, the same thing happened to me bought a new coil the resistance was about the same as yours I sent it back the next one I got was closer had secondary resistance of 7 still not up to manual specs of 10 but I just thought it might be a different cap . It ended up working found my pickup coil was mounted upside down. I think you have done everything right, just haven't found the problem yet. The pickup coil could have corrosion or trash on it a little troublesome to get too but maybe worth look to see. I am assuming its putting out voltage or it wouldn't be sparking at all, my manual doesnt say how much voltage it should be putting out. I will look at the schematic again see if there is anything I missed. Can you post a video of the spark you are getting. This is mine after I cleaned the pickup and repositioned it. 

 

 

 

[fordsoll]

I took off the stator cover and found very very slight surface rust on the end of the steel strip on the flywheel. It looks like someone has replaced the stator before but the pickup coil appears to be in the right position the metal part points straight towards the stator. Is there some sort of alignment that has to be done when you change the stator and or pickup coil? the pickup coil is also magnetic and so are the magnets on the inner part of the flywheel.

[fordsoll]

Is there anything else I should do or check while I have the cover off?

[Jim Denton]

Four more posts and you can download a manual. I'd look at ground connections. 

[fordsoll]

11 minutes ago, Jim Denton said:

Four more posts and you can download a manual. I'd look at ground connections. 

I do have the paper manual and yes I will look at the diagram in it to find the ground connections I should check

[Gwbarm]

I would go over the steel strip with 600 to 1000 grit sandpaper just to get crud off with maybe WD40 or some sort of contact cleaner, I would do the same with the little metal button on the pickup coil, just to get them clean and polished. Even though the metal button on mine was pointed toward the stator it was upside down sticking above the side cover, that's probably not you problem because you are getting some spark, I was getting nothing, but I would clean the 2 metal pieces and any rust you see while you are in there.

[Gwbarm]

This is the correct position for the pickup coil, yours being a 96 may not be the same but should be close

This is upside down

 

[fordsoll]

Yeah my pickup coil is good, although the stator on mine is slightly different but its probably fine. Tomorrow I will clean it up and put the cover back on and test the spark again.

[Gwbarm]

I thought your was good because you are getting a spark.

[fordsoll]

I meant the location of the pickup coil.

[fordsoll]

The spark looks a bit better after putting everything back together but it still wont start I think the spark isn't sparking under the compression of the engine

[Gwbarm]

Which repair manual are you looking in , I downloaded a 93-2005, and one for a 99 the 99 seemed more right for your bike, the other one was just like my big bear one, same wire colors and everything.

[fordsoll]

its a haynes manual that covers a few different quads and I also did notice that the 99 kodiak in the manual seemed to match the wiring a bit better but the sticker on the quad says 1996. The spark will not jump a large gap at all sometime it jumps the spark plug fine and others it needs to be a very small gap.

[kp3004x4]

Have you tried another plug or even a hotter one maybe,cold be grounding itself out somewhere on plug wire from coil to plug. Good luck

 

[fordsoll]

I just installed a new coil and the spark seems a bit better but I have tried a few different spark plugs and 2 new ones and it will only jump the gap on the resistor plug or just the bare coil wire. The bare coil wire actually puts out a decent spark but then through the resistor spark plug cap and the resistor spark plug it puts out a dim purple spark and with a brand new non resistor spark plug that is specified by the manufacture of the quad and no plug cap just the bare wire it will not spark at all.

[Mech]

Well that last test with a non resistor plug sounds like the plug is crook.

The thin and purple spark sounds normal for a resistor HT.  

You probably don't need a resistor plug and cap, one alone should stop radio and tv interference, and the bike will run just fine with or without any resistor anywhere in the HT.

Plug caps can get high resistance and not let any spark through, or they can develop cracks or carbon tracks across the inside or outside that short the spark to ground. Even when the caps resistance is correct by the book, they can still leak spark away. The rubber boots can get conductive also.. 

Sparks don't like jumping under compression. It takes only a bit of air pressure to make it really hard for a spark to jump. Just because a plug is sparking while it's sitting against the head, it doesn't mean it's going to once it's in place and under compression. Compression will make dirty plugs short, plugs with wide gaps not spark, caps with high resistance or tracks to not spark or short to earth. Always suspect spark plugs.. They can get fouled in a few cranks or kicks over..

Spark plugs can be dead right out of the packet (rarely), and/or they can be fouled before the bike even starts if the fuel is old and stale. Certain oils will also foul plugs really quickly. A new good plug though, in a bike with stale fuel, can get the plug fouled with just a few muffled puffs out the exhaust as the stale old fuel tries to burn, but with the engine never even starting up.

[fordsoll]

Ok so I took off the recoil and attached a drill (NOT an impact) to the nut on the crankshaft and had really good spark whereas when I used the electric starter I had poor spark. I don't know why the electric starter would have an impact on the spark after all this is an AC ignition system. Anyways I am gonna try starting it with the recoil and I will update this when I try it.

[kp3004x4]

You probably are turning the engine over faster=more revolutions and have more power generation=better spark

[Mech]

With this being a cdi system, the increase in spark while winding it over with a drill is probably not so much to do with the increase in speed. It could play some small part but cdi systems throw very consistent sparks at any rev.

I think a more likely explanation is that it has a bad earth connection somewhere. If the earth between the frame(or engine) and the battery was poor, and only letting just barely enough power through, then, when you use the starter it would start putting it's earth current through that bad connection and there might not be enough flow to allow the coil to earth itself fully at the same time.

If not a bad earth then a bad power supply to the cdi unit (if that cdi has a 12v feed in). A bad power supply will work much the same way.

Another possibility is that the ac output of the stator is a bit weak, possibly because the magnets have got weak..  Have you checked the stator resistance and ac output voltage ?

[fordsoll]

Ok I went to try to start the quad and it didn't start so I checked the spark again and nothing maybe 1 every few revolutions so I used the drill again to check and there is no spark. Im not sure how to check whether the cdi has a 12v feed in how do I check that? The stator resistance is .300 ohms and the pickup coil is .415 ohms. Can I check the stator ac output voltage by putting the multimeter on ac voltage mode in the same terminals where I ohm tested the stator?

[Mech]

Yes you can check the stator for an out put AC voltage. you test the three stator wires two at a time, same as the resistance check, except while cranking over it should put out an AC voltage of somewhere between ..  er.. about eighty to two-hundred is common, but allowing for a slow crank.. maybe more than twenty volts at least I should think would mean it's working.

You had spark though, and stators don't generally get intermittent. Wiring on the bike or faulty switches play up intermittently sometimes..  Have you checked both the switches are working properly and every time ? Have you checked over the wiring loom looking for chafed insulation ? Around the steering head where the wires move, and down near the motor where there are dangling wires are common places, but anywhere can chafe through after a long life.

Is the spark plug getting wet with fuel when you try to start it ? Are you sure that wetness hasn't fouled the plug/plugs ? Have you tried burning a plug clean over a butane flame and then putting it in still hot and trying to start the bike ? You did say early on that if you started it straight off with no checking for spark that it started..If it can be started the spark is probably going to be fine. I still suspect your plugs....  Plug and bad carby settings perhaps combining to flood the engine and foul the plug if it's not started straight away following some certain procedure.. 

[kp3004x4]

Yes usual if stator goes it's gone then if cdi it could be hot or cold with spark I would put new plug in to c if it's different at all first.  I have come across some that had a faulty kill switch that did this also wouldn't hurt to CHK that next.  Switches are finicky with temperature and wetness. 

[Gwbarm]

There are a few things I would check with no spark issue, first the stop start switch, black goes to ground, Black/ white goes to CDI check those 2 to make sure its working. Make sure you have 12 volts going to CDI R/W wire. Make sure you have ground going to CDI black wire. Your cutoff relay is good or you wouldn't be turning over with starter. You have checked your resistances they are close, mine on the pickup coil was 530 but its a few years newer bike resistances and wiring may be a a little different. You can check to see if you have voltage coming out of the pickup coil using an intermittent voltage adapter for your digital meter using the W/G and W/R at the CDI, if its an aftermarket stator wiring colors may be different, but should hook up to your original wiring harness going to CDI. I didn't have an adapter and Mech told me to use an analogue meter and the needle would move when it detected voltage, it worked for me, but you have to watch closely or you will miss it. Again I haven't looked at your wiring diagram so wire colors may be different on yours. One other thing make sure you have continuity and voltage from CDI on orange wire to the coil. You may have checked all these things already just going through my steps.