1990 Quadrunner LT-4WD won't idle compatible CDI

[JustRandy]

Time and time again you refuse to state what checks should be performed and that is the pile of evidence demonstrating that you have no idea what to check for.

I know you want to portray yourself as a mechanical guru, but all you're accomplishing with your incessant stubbornness is showcasing yourself as a wannabe who isn't.  The best thing you can do is just stop.

1 hour ago, Mech said:

they don't operate as you claim they do, and just short the excess power to earth.

Yes they do because that is all that is possible for them to do because, unlike cars, there are no windings with which to change the magnetic field since it's a permanent magnet magneto.

Magnetos are a class of alternator that uses permanent magnets instead of windings.  The 3 yellow wires coming out will have voltages 120 degrees apart in phase and the voltage of each will rise according to rpm with no way to change that.  So the only way possible to lower the voltage is to dump excess current to ground.  The regulator on my 230S only has one wire and the body is the ground, so the only thing it can do is dump whatever current that comes through that wire to ground and that's how it regulates the voltage.

You don't notice a load on the engine because at idle the alternator is not producing enough voltage so the regulator isn't doing anything.  But once rpms increase the alternator starts raising the voltage over 14.4 and the regulator will begin dumping excess current to ground to bring the voltage back down to 14.4.  You don't notice the load because the engine is running too fast.

The regulator also has a rectifier in it and that's where the winch comes in because the rectifier has to be able to convert 3-phase AC to DC and supply the necessary amps for the winch.

Since you like authority, here:

"The regulator looks at the DC-voltage across the battery-terminals and short-circuits a certain amount of power that is produced by the stator to ground."  https://www.electrosport.com/pages/technical-resources-how-motorcycle-charging-system-works

Here is a picture.  You can see the only thing possible is to dump current to ground.

They go on to say:

"One of the problems with these systems is the short-circuiting of the excess power itself. This is done by the regulator-rectifier and this part has to dissipate the power that it shorts to ground, meaning it will get very hot. This is mostly because of the regulator and partly by the rectifier-diodes themselves that get hot just because of the current flowing through it. The regulator-rectifier internals need to be built so that the heat is transferred efficiently from the electronical components themselves to the housing of the unit, mostly equipped with cooling-fins. This is the most important bit in designing a regulator-rectifier for use in a permanent-magnet generator-setup."

1 hour ago, Mech said:

Why you would want to dissuade someone from doing the tests that suzuki recommends

First of all, Suzuki doesn't recommend any tests in response to a failed regulator (I have the service manual).  Secondly, you cannot tell anyone what tests should be performed.  So the only thing stopping Bender from performing the tests that you recommend is YOU because you refuse to state such tests (because it's not worth your time, you say).

Now, you can ascertain the condition of the alternator by measuring the AC voltage out of the alternator at 5000 rpm.  It should be at least 55-60 VAC across any two yellow wires with no load.

But we already know the alternator is sufficient to burn up a regulator so no test is required.

1 hour ago, Mech said:

a little bit of knowledge,

I may only know a little, but evidently it's more than you.  At least I'm getting people back on the trail.  If not for me, you'd have the poor guy chasing his tail checking valves and carb mixtures still.

[Mech]

That diagram you are looking at is not like the suzuki system Randy.. 

"Yes they do because that is all that is possible for them to do"... Oh ?

I'll leave you too it Randy..

[JustRandy]

25 minutes ago, Mech said:

That diagram you are looking at is not like the suzuki system

Not tired of being wrong yet?

Magnetos have permanent magnets so there is no way to stop the magneto from raising voltage with rpms.

The only thing that can be done is dump the excess to ground.

29 minutes ago, Mech said:

I'll leave you too it Randy..

That's your best move to preserve what credibility you have left.

[BenderIsGreat]

I mean....it's a 30 year old ATV that I got for free.....I didn't get a higher amp regulator, I just got a cheap Chinese one off Amazon.  If it fails again, I'll look into it more, but I already replaced the carb, the coil, cap, plug, CDI....If there is a charging issue, I might not have it in me to go that deep, won't know till it happens.  But this wasn't meant to be perfection, just needed it to run reliably enough to get to the camp in November, which I'm pretty sure I've accomplished.  Thanks for all the input guys, it's been enlightening

[JustRandy]

A Chinese one is different from the Japanese OEM so maybe it will last.  I mentioned Ricks because it's more or less lifetime guaranteed and they can build anything you want.  You wouldn't have to get the biggest, but I did because I have 2 winches, 7 lights, a fan, and 2 batteries.  Considering what I have put mine through over the last decade I doubt you will ever have a charging issue.

It's a good machine that is worth whatever investment you want to put into it.  No other quad has all those gears and with super-low it's the most fun you'll ever have at 1 mph lol.  The piston, head, and cam are the same as the 230S sport quad so you could jazz it up fairly easy if you ever wanted.  230 cams are a dime a dozen.

Just because it's old and free doesn't mean it isn't valuable.  I still recommend a cheap 6 inch fan from ebay because it could save the piston rings.  Zip tie it to the right side and it will blow hot air on your left leg in november

[BenderIsGreat]

"it's the most fun you'll ever have at 1 mph"

I literally busted a gut reading that.  One of my favorite things to do on this in the old days (it was my grampa's bike) was put it down in super-low, diff-lock and just walk through a deep mud hole.

 

About the fan, I was literally just gonna say, I mostly will only use it in the winter so I'm not worried about over-heating, but you have me intrigued now about blowing warm air on myself...that is definitely a selling point

 

Glad to hear the endorsement of the machine, I'm hoping I can get a decent number of years out of it still, I don't need an ATV bad enough to buy another one, so as long as I can keep this one going, I get to have an ATV

[JustRandy]

Love super-low!  I can fool around all day crawling over logs and pretty much anything that happens to get in my way lol

There is a mod you can do to make the diff lock in any range, but I forgot exactly what it is after 10 years.  Also a mod to start in any gear without finding neutral.  I'm sure there are threads on here about it somewhere.

In winter the air is denser so it runs a bit leaner and a bit hotter, especially driving slow.  The heat blowing out on my leg sure feels good in winter and in summer I just move my leg farther out to avoid the heat.  I don't run it all the time, just when I think it might be running hot.

When it gets too hot the ring gaps close and further expansion pushes the rings into the cylinder walls.  Once it starts burning oil then it starts running out of oil then the next thing you know the head is toast.  That happened to me a few years ago.  Luckily I had a spare head and cam laying around but they generally run $200 on ebay.  I don't want to go down that road again so I make sure that fan is on anytime it starts feeling hot.

The 230s are notorious smokers.  I think it has something to do with the bore being smaller than the stroke, which is another thing unique to these quads.  Manufacturers usually make the piston bigger so they can fit more valves in the head, but suzuki decided to go the other way and make a torque monster.  Anyway, my theory is the piston wobbles around in the bore a bit more because of the long stroke, so I try to keep it as cool as I can to avoid further problems.

The 230 is 66mm bore x 67mm stroke and yours is 66mm x 76mm which is crazy!  No other machine is like that.  The Can-am 1000 is 91mm x 75mm.