1999 suzuki king quad fuel pump/petcock/carb advice

[Frank Angerano]

Baby steps ! Nice work. 

[Dra O]

10 minutes ago, davefrombc said:

Bogging  is  more often  a  lean  problem than rich.. As Frank  said ,  I'd pull the carb once more  and  look for any tiny, and I mean  tiny   holes in the tubes  to the  jets . They  can be  missed very easily  because they're so  small  and  not a  brass jet  as  the  bigger ones  are . I  don't  know  if  your  carb  has the  holes  I'm  talking about  but  many  do.. Carbs  and fuel  mixture  settings  are  often accompanied by  a  lot  of  my  verbal  lubrication  here.  Sometimes I wish  I was multi-lingual  so  I'd  have  access to  a  broader range  of  "lubricant  " phrases. They're so  handy  when fiddling  with the small stuff  and  much  better to  use them than  start tossing  tools   LOL

 

hilarious - i may take a pic of the pieces this time - it's not bogging as bad w/ air fuel screw not out as far.

so let me make sense of this... they WHY behind it - and i likely will be thinking of this backward, but here it goes: 

-the air fuel screw mixes air and gas --- if it's too far in (3 turns), meaning that i can see or almost see the tip of it in the cylinder wall, not enough AIR? is able to mix with the gas and create the explosion?  thus, backing it out to 2 turns, i cannot see the tip, this opens up the hole for more air to mix with the gas at a better ratio conducive to creating an explosion - this process is fine-tuned until there's not any bogging down (ie the best ratio has been reached for max performance).  ??

[Frank Angerano]

Very good! 
That air fuel screw is tapered and fits into an air passage in the carb, so turning the screw out increases the airflow. Some carburetors are different but most work this way.  Over time the screws tapered edge wears away and the adjustment gets less sensitive. 

 The optimal position where the engine is at max performance is usually done with the engine running. As you turn the screw in one direction or the other the engine revs higher or lower.  Higher is what your looking for the higher it revs the better the air fuel ratio is getting and you keep going in that direction until the engine starts to rev lower.  Thats the spot where  you stop and come back a hair. 

Edited December 15, 2019 by Frank Angerano

[spock58]

Something to bear in mind: if the adjustment screw is on the engine side of the carb (like this one) it is a fuel screw, so turning it out richens the mixture. Most 4 stroke carbs are this way.

If it's on the airbox side, it is an air screw - common on 2 strokes. This works opposite but really does the same thing. It just fine tunes the pilot (slow jet) circuit in all cases.

[Dra O]

All internal pieces checked and cleaned.

Float bowl gasket:  unsure what happened here - it wasn't stretched prior to putting it in - it fit like a glove initially.  will likely cut it at the screwdriver mark and permaseal the joint

Assuming the attached pictures upload in order, picture #6 - it lies atop picture #7, under diaphragm - it is shiny - this is gas - is this to be expected?  it sits directly under the diaphragm

picture #8: center of carb - it's open - didn't want to try to remove the internal threaded piece - it looks fixed

picture #9: can see light going through main jet in center - the screw/jet under this has a VERY small hole - I couldn't get one wire of a clean pipe cleaner wire through it but was able to blow through it w/ my breath - that hole is SMALL.

picture #12 (last one): that hole at the bottom - does it have a function?   

[Frank Angerano]

Nice work. It looks spotless, I would not cut that gasket. It will tighten up and fit back in. If you cut that rubber it will leak. 

[Dra O]

i'll make it work.  thanks.   going to try the float bowl stuff likely tomorrow.

[Frank Angerano]

👍🏻 

Good work brother! 

[spock58]

The tube that's threaded for the main jet can be removed, it needs to be pushed upward and may require a small punch to loosen it. There are small holes in it that I believe davefrombc referred to.

I didn't see any pictures of the needle & seat (aka float valve) that is retained by the phillips screw - did you replace the o-ring on it already?

The plastic piece in #6 & #7 is necessary for the spring to rest on - it looks like you've got it on correctly.

 

[Frank Angerano]

Agreed @spock58 but it looks like all the internals are new. That brass looks a little bit too clean to me?  

[spock58]

the jets look gold plated, hahaha

 

[Frank Angerano]

Exactly!

[Dra O]

"The tube that's threaded for the main jet can be removed, it needs to be pushed upward and may require a small punch to loosen it. There are small holes in it that I believe davefrombc referred to." -- I tried to lightly tap that main jet sheath out (downward) but it didn't budge - I COULD squirt some lubricant down beside it and put a slot head screw driver on the sides (see pic) and try to knock it out but, with my luck, the carb would snap in half - or i'd scratch something up real bad ---- but if there are holes in that area (in the jet sheath), it does need to come out, huh? 

pics below of main jet: looks like there'd be a tool that "unscrews" this piece - see needle pointing to area in question

the weird thing is that I've not had any small holes in ANY of the pieces to unplug w/ a wire... almost all of the videos I watch on carb rebuilds show them unplugging holes.  my pieces have holes straight through them - see pieces on cardboard paper - the ONLY piece that is too tiny to clean w/ wire I have is #5 - but I can blow through it - and i can blow through the old #5 piece

"I didn't see any pictures of the needle & seat (aka float valve) that is retained by the phillips screw - did you replace the o-ring on it already?" -- yessir, it was replaced - the o-ring was REALLY flat on the old one - the new one is nice and plump and fits perfectly (an entirely new float was included w/ carb rebuild kit)

Frank, the float bowl gasket DOES fit back in the groove - gotta press it down evenly from all sides - i'd have been up a creek had I cut the thing

gold jets - haaa!  that's how I roll, brothers!     I've no idea why they're gold - if they'd been green or pink i'd not have known the difference

 

[spock58]

https://www.ronniesmailorder.com/oemparts/a/suz/50d0a5aff870022c2c534c07/carburetor-model-x

If you refer to the parts diagram, the piece you're trying to remove is #6 - the needle jet. These often wear out and the inside diameter increases causing  a rich condition.

Carb kits don't include this part but it may be required to get the carb working properly.

[davefrombc]

I'm not familiar with that particular  carb, but the diagram does show  the tiny  holes I mentioned that  are in  many  tubes in different  carbs .. one thing  not mentioned is the direction that  jet tube  comes out  of the  carb  body . . Down towards the  float  bowl  or  up towards the  top?  trying to drive it the wrong direction   can screw up the works .

 

Edited December 16, 2019 by davefrombc

[spock58]

It goes up to the top, the main jet screws into it from below which keeps it in place.

[Dra O]

but does it punch down or up?  I'd think downward from float.  but that's what i'd THINK - i'm no mechanic. 

both ends sit flush - I have oil soaking them now - if punch toward float it might break / chip the plastic housing

[spock58]

The needle jet is removed toward the slide, just like it's shown in the parts diagram. When you say "downward from float" I assume you mean with the carb turned upside down.

[Frank Angerano]

Why are you pulling that part out ? 

Ive never needed to touch that unless someone cross threaded the main jet.  

[spock58]

I would recommend removing it to clean/inspect/replace if worn. They usually pop out with very little effort.

[Dra O]

I've not removed anything at this point - afraid i'll damage things w/out the right tool(s)

"When you say "downward from float" I assume you mean with the carb turned upside down"  -- I mean away from the float bowl toward the center of the carb

i'm not so sure about taking that piece out - the idling had improved per adjusting the air fuel screw - although I can see where the need would be to clean out the holes

 

[spock58]

Sounds like you've done your best to get it out but if it's that stuck you'd better leave it be. Normally they're not that bad to pull, that's why I wouldn't be surprised if there's corrosion involved.

I've worked on many King Quads over the years and this part often needs replacing. Once the needle wears into it enough, they will run rich and make the sparkplug get black. You will know if that's the case pretty quick.

[Frank Angerano]

There are small brushes that get inside that port to clean it. 
If you crack that carburetor body its over! 
It looks like you rotated the brass sleeve a little already.   

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[Frank Angerano]

The pic attached shows why you also might be stuck, its not going to come out if if its wedged.  Was it like that before you touched it ?

[spock58]

Good eye Frank! It looks like it's twisted alright....screwing the main jet back in will hopefully get in back in alignment.

 

[Dra O]

yessir - post w/ pics from 22 hours ago show it in the same position - I tapped it LIGHTLY once, fearing i'd break the housing - and haven't tapped it since - and it was tapped straight down, not at an angle as to rotate the piece - it always had that little gap as far as I can remember - looks like it needs to be rotated just a hair but i'm not doing it - it's not moving around any

i'm letting it stay the way it is

[Frank Angerano]

Agreed not to keep messing with it but just have to hope that its not allowing any fuel or vacuum issues if that alignment issue now created a gap of any kind. 
 

[Dra O]

here we go: I put the main screw back in and tightened it down to SNUG - then put a bit more bite on screwing it in and it moved an extra 16th of an inch, likely seating it back into the original position w/out any gaps.  I can't see this happen but can feel it.  As I take the screw back out, it "gives" a bit and then loosens out without issues.  I'm SURE that's it - it seats once fully in. 

[Frank Angerano]

Yes it most likely did and leave it be !! 
I'm confident that Mr. Gold jet has cleaned all parts of the carburetor and shes ready to roll. Double check your float level, slap that puppy back together and fire this thing up! 
Where are you going to set the air/fuel screw at ?

[Dra O]

I am CONFIDENT that extra little push sets everything back in alignment - it HAS to be. 

going with between 2 and 2 1/4 for now - trying to fashion a tool to let me adjust air/fuel screw while carb is mounted

here's a pic of float - at rest see the top line - blowing into fuel pipe it only comes up to the second mark - looks like i'm way off

will adjust and repost pic in a few