2016 Presidential Election Discussion Thread

[JustRandy]

15 hours ago, davefrombc said:

Were were paying a monthly fee for our health care here in BC

Sounds like the neoliberals got to you too.  Sales tax and monthly fees are just another version of obamacare putting the burden on the middle class.  Bernie had it right taxing income, but that makes it hard to shovel the burden on the middle class.

15 hours ago, davefrombc said:

Bring back the tax structure of the  1950's.

From 1932 to 1982 the rich paid effectively 50% of their income in taxes.  Those 50 years were the years America led the world by every metric.

15 hours ago, davefrombc said:

he really  only has so  much control  over  what the  House and Senate pass.

Come on man:

53 death penalty offenses!  Cops carry it out on the streets.

 

[Rich1028]

I can not believe how many Pu*** Liberal Demorats that are on this site!

You do not have to BAN me, after this post I will no longer even come to this "SHITHOLE OF LIBERAL SWILL"

YOU HAVE SOME BI*** ...AGAIN FROM UP NORTH...OUT OF THIS COUNTRY TELLING YOU SH**!

 

[davefrombc]

34 minutes ago, Rich1028 said:

I can not believe how many Pu*** Liberal Demorats that are on this site!

You do not have to BAN me, after this post I will no longer even come to this "SHITHOLE OF LIBERAL SWILL"

YOU HAVE SOME BI*** ...AGAIN FROM UP NORTH...OUT OF THIS COUNTRY TELLING YOU SH**!

 

Spoken like a true tRump lover ERW.  Yup, This bi*** from  up  north  telling you  like it  is since you obviously  don't  go to other  sites where fact may be  told and civil  discussions made.

 

[Ajmboy]

1 hour ago, Rich1028 said:

I can not believe how many Pu*** Liberal Demorats that are on this site!

You do not have to BAN me, after this post I will no longer even come to this "SHITHOLE OF LIBERAL SWILL"

YOU HAVE SOME BI*** ...AGAIN FROM UP NORTH...OUT OF THIS COUNTRY TELLING YOU SH**!

 

@Rich1028 I'm not going to ban you but please watch your tone. Really not fair for you to say this. Out of the thousands of topics on atvs in this community, you gather your opinion based on the one "general discussion" topic about politics you decide to jump into? You then trash QUADCRAZY like this because of your political views? That's not fair and we are also not for name calling other members, no matter how much you dislike their opinions. 

Lets appreciate everyone's point of view and please keep it civil. Everyone. 

[JustRandy]

The poll at the top says 37 votes for Trump and 10 for Clinton, so not sure how this forum could be characterized as a liberal bastion, but then again I don't leave this thread so I don't really know how it is out there.  Hard to imagine many are supporting Biden though.

[davefrombc]

On 9/1/2020 at 7:14 AM, JustRandy said:

From 1932 to 1982 the rich paid effectively 50% of their income in taxes.  Those 50 years were the years America led the world by every metric.

I remember one of the big stars of  the  50's saying one of the big reasons he sponsored so  much  medical  and educational institutions  was  because his income was so  high that  in  Federal  and state / local  taxes of the time  he was paying closer to  90%+ in  taxes.  Individuals  had  to support "social  programs"  so  they could reduce their taxes  and see the money they paid out in lieu of taxes  went to  programs they  chose rather than  where the politicians wanted to  spend it . There was very little  "corporate  welfare"  back then.  Again ,  profits were taxed.  If they wanted to reduce the tax burden they could re-invest  those earnings in the company infrastructure  and employees  AT HOME. The  could not take the money  and run offshore with it;  claim  losses  domestically   like they  do now  and claim subsidies.   Gad ,  how "socialist"  both the  Republicans  and  mainstream  Democrats were back then.  The  GOP  held the  mantle of being for the little  guy and freedom /  equality  and it was the  "Southern  Democrats" that were the extreme Right Wing that pushed Segregation  and  the White  privilege of the day. How things have  changed,  mostly  from the Reagan days  to  now . The  Dems and GOP  have pretty much switched  platforms with  the  ERW  in the GOP  and the ELW  in the Democrats  where before it was just the opposite.

I  can  never understand the thinking that social  programs like Medicare , employment  benefits and  other "social  programs"  take away  your freedoms    as so  many on the right scream .  Instead they  save people  from the  "Freedom"  of going bankrupt or dying  because they can't afford the medical  treatment they need ,  or recover from  job loss from injury  or  other things not under their control.   Crying  why  do  I  need to  pay taxes  to support those that  refuse to  work  is  a  non-starter in reality. Yes, there is that  small  proportion  that could be called parasites by choice , but the vast majority that need those programs  are there because of mental  illnesses and abusive  family backgrounds that  did not put them  on a responsible  path.  Tots are colour blind,  don't  care  what their playmates look like  or what religion they  are growing up  in .. Those prejudices  are taught to them  by  prejudiced  parents  and society.

Everyone should have the freedom  to have a safe and prosperous life.  Free  from  restrictions  put  on them by others that don't agree with  how they look or worship.

Americans,  like  us  Canadians all  have  the same freedoms of choice,  good or bad.  We all   also have the  "freedom"  of paying for our  bad choices. Government  sponsored social  programs in no  reduce those  freedoms. 

No  matter  how much those  on the right want to  complain about  Unions, it's those unions that are mainly responsible for there being a  "middle class"  in North America  now.   If  you really want to  see the truth in that , just  look  at  what states  unions   are the strongest in and what ones they  are weakest in  , and the n compare their economies and the ration of lower ,  middle  and  upper "classes" .  fo the most paret ,  it's  the ones with the strongest  unionization that  have the largest ratio in the middle.

Yes,  I well know  that  the  last century of the right and elite complaining  about  "socialism"  and  "Communism"  have been  able to keep  much of the  masses  scared of anything that benefits all . Their propaganda has been very  effective over those years.  With today's  connected  society,  those old cries are not  nearly so effective in  keeping  America snowed..  That's about the only  good thing tRump has done for America.. It  has brought  out   some of the weaknesses in  American  democracy and Constitution.  At least for those that want to  open their eyes and ears and really look at the society today. tRump  has taken your government  closer to  Fascism than  it has ever been , and hopefully  never will  be .

[quadmaniac]

On 9/1/2020 at 3:54 PM, Rich1028 said:

I can not believe how many Pu*** Liberal Demorats that are on this site!

You do not have to BAN me, after this post I will no longer even come to this "SHITHOLE OF LIBERAL SWILL"

YOU HAVE SOME BI*** ...AGAIN FROM UP NORTH...OUT OF THIS COUNTRY TELLING YOU SH**!

 

Not sure where you get that from, I think you are a little out of line here and I am a republican. This is really the only topic on this forum that has any political discussion so unless you have some private PMs going on with other members, you might want to rethink your response....just saying. 

6 hours ago, JustRandy said:

The poll at the top says 37 votes for Trump and 10 for Clinton, so not sure how this forum could be characterized as a liberal bastion, but then again I don't leave this thread so I don't really know how it is out there.  Hard to imagine many are supporting Biden though.

and thats an old poll from 2016 when it was Trump and Clinton running. I do agree on not being able to support Biden. I'm looking forward to the debates and really hope Biden does them and doesn't find an excuse not too. 

[davefrombc]

I  find it disappointing more people don't  chime into this thread  from  both the  Dem  and GOP  sides of it.

When  you  have  only two  choices  ( not voting  is NOT  a choice.  It is a choice for the worst outcome ) you really  have to  think,  look and  listen to  the contenders and  try to  make your  choice on  where they stand,  not on whether  they  are a member of the party  and philosophy  you support or  not. 

 Yes, I personally detest the likes of tRump  and all those that think and act like him; and it goes back  long  before  that narcissistic incompetent ran  for the Presidency.   He  has done nothing for the country  and all for himself  since  the Electoral  College  put him  in there.  Believe it or not , but tRump  ran , not to  win the job  and do  for the  country  , but to  get  very  cheap  air time to  hype  his name  for purely  business   gain.   That  he  won was  a huge bonus for him that he  has tried to take full  advantage of ever  since.  I  do  hope to see  debates  between  him  an Biden,  and  real time fact checking  on line  and  in  video  commentary during those debates.  Biden  has a  disability  that  often  has  him  misspeaking ..  Trump  has  a personality  disorder that  has him very difficult to speak the truth, and even  if he does  say  something truthful , ends up  embellishing it  until there  is  little truth  left in it.  

 "It's gonna be interesting  in November"

 

[JustRandy]

@davefrombc I know someone who had a heart attack and said if she were not unconscious and blue laying on the floor she would have said not to call the ambulance because she can't afford it.  Her biggest concern was not dying, but being saddled with the cost when the reason she was working so hard in the first place was because she can barely afford to get by which is what caused her heart attack.  The US is like a 3rd world country.  All we're missing is people selling kidneys for food.

 

16 hours ago, davefrombc said:

I  find it disappointing more people don't  chime into this thread  from  both the  Dem  and GOP  sides of it.

It's not about facts, but emotions like rooting for a sports team. So all we'll get is fighting and butting heads.

[davefrombc]

I  know someone  here that had a heart attack  and quad  bypasses....... ME..... Our universal  health coverage covered all  my medical expenses  at the time ( 20  years ago  now) and my supplemental  coverage from work  covered  enough of my wages  that I  did not fall  behind on my  bills.  I  have  friends who  also have needed bypass surgery.  All  have done well since except for  one  who  unfortunately had a fatal attack the day  after  her surgery.  They  didn't say whether it was a failure  of the bypasses ,  a subsequent  clot  or other problem , but whatever it was it  was fatal  for her .

Even though we have had  universal  care in varying form  here for years across Canada, the  for profit  health care industry  is still spending millions every year trying to  gut it.  So  far the provinces , even  those  with more right wing Conservative majorities  have resisted letting them  back  in.  They  know all  too  well the drubbing the voters would give them  if they did.

We  get  our  share  of fighting  and butting heads here too, but with multiple parties to  make it more interesting.  We  don't have a  President to  try  to  make himself a dictator.  In our parliamentary  system the head of the party with the  majority number of members sitting forms the government. If  no  one party  has a working  majority they  may form  a coalition  with   one of the others with sitting members to  form that majority.  Should  the  government suffer a vote of  non-confidence, there  must be a  new election.  It doesn't  matter if it  is only weeks from the election or the  maximum 4  years.  Coalition governments  make for a  little more cautious  legislation and  can  at times be frustratingly slow in getting things  passed,  but  it  is sure a lot better than  an absolute majority pushing through poorly thought out  legislation.

Like  you , we have those that  only  vote for the member of their chosen  party no  matter  how poorly equipped he or  she  may be for the job.  We have no primaries here .  Candidates are chosen for each  party  by the members  in  each of the  ridings . The general  public  only gets to choose between the ones chosen   in the general  election.

  I  belong to  no  party.  I  try to  choose the one  I think  can best represent my interests and those of  my community , no  matter which  party  he  or she  may belong too.

My  leanings are definitely to  the liberal  view, not  the Liberal  party as such.  Federally  the  Liberals  are left leaning ,  but here in BC the  Liberal  party is anything but liberal. They were taken  over  several  years ago by  members of the old provincial Conservative and  Social Credit parties that were  basically wiped out by  a third party,  the  NDP..   LOL

( Social  Credit  was   a very  right leaning populist party that  ruled here for  several  years in the 1950's and early 60's)

Ialways encourage everyone to  vote for who they think best represents them  despite the party they  may or may not belong to.

[JustRandy]

50 minutes ago, davefrombc said:

Even though we have had  universal  care in varying form  here for years across Canada, the  for profit  health care industry  is still spending millions every year trying to  gut it.

I hear the same is going on in the UK.  Step 1: Defund it so it doesn't work.  Step 2: Privatize it for big profits.  Step 3: Government bails it out when it inevitably fails.  They will whittle you down eventually and it will be another glaring "failure" of socialism.

It's like "How many times do we have to beat you down before you get it through your head that socialism never works?"  It's so transparent, but few can what they're doing.  Getting their grubby little hands on social security is like the Holy Grail of big profits, then the taxpayers will really be wringed dry when they have to bail that out.

[davefrombc]

3 hours ago, JustRandy said:

I hear the same is going on in the UK.  Step 1: Defund it so it doesn't work.  Step 2: Privatize it for big profits.  Step 3: Government bails it out when it inevitably fails.  They will whittle you down eventually and it will be another glaring "failure" of socialism.

It's like "How many times do we have to beat you down before you get it through your head that socialism never works?"  It's so transparent, but few can what they're doing.  Getting their grubby little hands on social security is like the Holy Grail of big profits, then the taxpayers will really be wringed dry when they have to bail that out.

Yes, they are doing it in the UK too but  Canadians and  people in the UK  are  relatively much  harder  to  fool with the cries of socialism  and "they're trying to  steal your freedom" than   Americans who  have been  deluged with it every time any suggestion of improving social  programs that benefit everyone.  People in the  Commonwealth  are far less afraid of and have more control  over our governments than  Americans do. We can force an election anytime the government gets too far out of line that people want to revolt.  With your Republic,  the most you can do  is try to  impeach and  remove individuals,  and you've seen  how  hard that  is  to  do.  We can force and entirely new election  of all our  federal  politicians at any time through a non confidence vote.  You  have to  wait   2  years to  try to  get rid of half of them  and 4 years  to remove an  incompetent  such as your stable genius if  the senate  won't ratify an impeachment of him.

 The beauty of the internet  and  its ability to  bring  virtually  instant communication to  all  is that the old scare  tactics  of the military / industrial   are  far less effective  in scaring those  that  have enough of an open  mind  to  be able to discuss  social  programs elsewhere, see how they work  and realize they in now way threaten your freedoms. Those screams of "my rights" "socialism and communism"  are having less impact  all the time as people across America  are increasingly  realizing they are bullshit.  They are still  far too effective in the US but it's changing;  more so  in the cities where there is a  lot  more contact  through their  being hubs of trade and international  connections  than  in the farm states and rural  communities where there is far less exposure to people from  other cultures  and political systems.  It's far harder to hate someone or their system  when you  are interacting with them  and in doing so can sort through the facts and BS claims much easier.  Closed minds such as of at least one  demonstrated on this forum  will  never  change, but anyone  who  will take the time  to  discuss and argue points will. The 1%  should feel  increasingly threatened,  and  it isn't going to  end.  Americans  are getting  much  harder to  beat down  by them  and you  in  many ways can thank the WWW for helping toughen them  up.

[Ajmboy]

This topic is now closed and we are moving discussion to a new topic and new poll for 2020 😁